Good news/bad news

[f4f3]

This week's weight loss has stuck over the weekend, and I'm lighter now than I've been for a year. Go me.
The Cold is back, and I have leaden limbs and am breathing through cotton wool. Go away.

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Labour held my old Westminster constituency - very convincingly. They polled about 60% of the votes, SNP about 20%, Tories 5% (just holding their deposit) BNP just under 5% (losing their deposit, and showing no signs of a surge, in the Glasgow constituency with most asylum seekers and the poorest white working class). The rest of the vote was shared between the SDP (sixth) and various other socialist and celebrity candidates.
The links between the BNP/English Defence League and protestant extremists came out again this weekend in a rally in Glasgow. I say a rally, but the thirty or forty of them were penned in a pub before being bussed to the city limits (actually, to Paisley Road West, which is more like the Outer Limits than the city limits). There's lots of stuff here about my formative influences, from why I'm a socialist to why I can't stand the Union Jack (the two are related).

Comments

[psychochicken.livejournal.com]

1) I haven't said it's exclusively labour's problem. It's not. Nor have I said it makes them any less the winners of this contest. What I *have* said is that calling it "convincing" is taking things a little far. An opinion I stand by.
2) By Labour's GE opponents I refer to the Tories; as opposed to their local election opponents, the SNP. Whilst the Tories aren't literally being run out of town, I can't imagine they have any illusions of victory there. Anyway, the point was that the opponents are different in the two battles.
3) Parochial feelings is hardly the same thing as interests.
4) Did I say racism against the English was Scotland's worst racism problem? Don't believe I did. However I will say that it's by far the most ingrained and accepted prejudice. There are people who will make anti-English statements that wouldn't dream of saying anything against Asians, but then that's because it's not really considered racism. It is the most relevant form to the conversation because we were talking about an English organisation seeking support from a Scottish one.
5) Actually, I think you were laughing at racism towards the English. You were certainly a long way off taking it seriously.

[f4f3.livejournal.com]

1. We're not going to agree on this one - I'm talking about the result of the election, you're talking about disenchantment with the political process. We can both be right, and both wrong.
2. If Scotland return 45 Labour MPs and no Conservative MPs (or even somewhere in single figures) at the next general election, as this result suggests, then that's a pretty ringing endorsement of Labour from Scotland. Is it an endorsement of Brown? Well it would make a pretty poor condemnation.
3. The parochial feelings seemed to be that an SNP government favoured Edinburgh over Glasgow. Right or wrong, that's a feeling tied in pretty strongly with their interests.
4. You said "any sympatheticly racist organisation in Scotland would have them penned as public enemy number one ahead of anyone with coloured skin." Which I took to mean that for any racist organisation the English would be public enemy number one ahead of anyone with coloured skin. Is that different from saying that the English are the most racially discriminated against?
Well there is an argument that I can see that you were referring only to hypothetical organised racists in Scotland - if that's your argument then I still say it's wrong, and obviously wrong. Is it the most ingrained and accepted prejudice? Worse than sectarianism, or homophobia? I got beaten up by a lot of Protestants when I was a boy, and a lot of homophobes and a lot of anti-intellectualists (although to be fair the latter two were pretty synonymous), and I'd suggest that they haven't changed their opinion as they grew up. "There are people who will make anti-English statements that wouldn't dream of saying anything against Asians, but then that's because it's not really considered racism." and that's wrong - but the things they are saying don't tend to run to rounding them up and sending them home. I understand that you are as sensitive to those remarks as I am to anti-Scottish remarks in England. One of the reasons I DIDN'T go tell the BNP candidate to go back to where he came from was because it WOULD have been a racist statement. It might have been funny in context, but it would still have been racist.
5. If I had responded in a serious manner then it would have been very serious indeed. I would have had to put forward examples of racism towards non-white people in the UK (English, Scottish and other nationalities), and specifically racist actions by Scots and English in Scotland and England, to point up by contrast the reality of racist acts in both countries. This would have been a good way to win an argument, but I don't think it would be worth it.

[psychochicken.livejournal.com]

Still don't think the win was 'convincing'.
Still think racism towards the English is at least on a par with sectarianism it terms of pervasive acceptance. Whilst homophobia and anti-intellectualism are vile prejudices, I don't think they count as racism.

I'm walking away now as as you have stated there's no way we're going to reach any sort of accord here.